CHUKWU DAVID 
- ‘Collaboration with US needed to tackle insecurity’
Senator Orji Uzor Kalu, a former governor of Abia State, represents Abia North Senatorial District at the National Assembly. In this interview monitored on Channels Television, he speaks on national security, diplomatic row between Nigeria and the United States and the sentencing of leader of the Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB), Nnamdi Kanu, CHUKWU DAVID reports
It’s a very troubling time and a sad scenario that we have seen from Kebbi to Kwara and Niger states, following abductions and closure of schools. People are worried over whether they are really protected by this government that you are part of, supported, and campaigned for to come into power? What exactly is going on?
What we are seeing is a routine activity that occurs during election periods. When we have elections, some selfish people will try to pressurise the government with all kinds of things.
You will remember that when President Goodluck Jonathan was in office, a similar thing occurred; they put a lot of pressure on him and the terrorists and bandits were orchestrated by the international community and local people, who wanted to destabilise the government. These issues are not usual, but I’m sure you can see that President Bola Tinubu is up to the task.
For the first time, you see the President cancelling all his engagements. Today is Sunday and he is in his office facing the security challenges. Those kidnapped schoolgirls will be recovered because the government is making every effort to make sure these children are rescued.
It’s not the best of times for us and it is because of a few local and international announcements about Nigeria’s insecurity but our service chiefs and our security operatives have fully come out to end this menace. We will track these criminals down. It’s a challenge but the essence of government is to protect lives and property and we are equal to the task.
You are inferring that what is happening is politically motivated. Do you have evidence to back this up?
You have seen these things happen times without number. In the past few months, things have been quiet until President Donald Trump talked about people being killed in Nigeria, and now you can see people talking about the 2027 general election. So, you can see that this is all about politics but the Federal Government is equal to the task.
Who are these politicians entrenching insecurity in Nigeria for political gains?
These people are partially mercenaries bought by politicians. These are people focused on destabilising a president that is ready to revamp our economy and has been trying his best.
Is the President aware of all this information?
The President is the leader of the country and he has a lot of information. The President has abundance of intelligence given information at his disposal. But as a citizen of Nigeria who runs international activities, I am aware that some people are sponsoring insecurity to destabilise the government and the intelligence agencies know these people.
Why are they doing this; is for Tinubu to fail?
Of course, they want Tinubu to fail and not to run again in 2027.
Are you saying that this insecurity is all about 2027?
Of course! They did it during former President Jonathan’s time, so it’s nothing short of 2027.
The way Tinubu is working on Sundays; we thought some of you at the National Assembly would also follow suit and put more pressure on our security chiefs…
We are working on weekends. I just left the Senate President; he is still in his office. We are discussing how to solve these problems. Nobody is sleeping. We are discussing security issues, and it’s not what I will tell you here. We will discuss the issues and hand over our resolutions to the security chiefs for them to act on.
Some people are sponsoring insecurity to destabilise the government… they want Tinubu to fail and not to run again in 2027
We have been going back and forth on state police; why is it difficult to come up with a solid solution to insecurity in our country?
You know that democracy is not autocracy; it’s not something you just make pronouncement on. We work on these issues and send them to the state Houses of Assembly, and we need two-third majority of Houses of Assembly in Nigeria to amend the constitution.
The 9th Senate worked on these amendments, made recommendations, sent them to the state Houses of Assembly, and they returned without getting a two-third majority. So, you can’t blame the National Assembly. We are working; we are concerned because our constituencies are putting pressure on us.
The President has ordered the withdrawal of policemen from VIPs to focus on core duties though this is not the first time we are hearing about that directive. What do you make of that order?
The President is right. The Senate, just last week, approved for the executive to recruit 100,000 soldiers, and the Senate is making arrangements to approve recruitment of more police operatives. We need more manpower in a population of almost 300 million people.
Part of President Tinubu’s Renewed Hope Agenda is that he will get more boots on the ground because Nigeria is highly under-policed. Why is your party and this government sluggish about what you promised Nigerians?
We cannot force anybody to join the Nigerian Police Force. Maybe those who didn’t apply have jobs elsewhere nut we are doing everything possible to ensure security of lives and property. President Tinubu is having sleepless nights every day because of Nigeria but I can assure you things will get better.
There seems to be disappointment in some quarters that some of you who are paid heavily should have rapidly made laws that will secure this country. Why has that been difficult?
We have made a lot of laws and we shall continue to make laws. When I was a governor, security was my priority because the constitution says the government should first secure the people but this is a country where people do not encourage the government.
The government makes laws, and people break these laws along the line. The under-policed population has also refused to join the police force and the military, and you cannot force them.
Nigerians contribute a lot to pay your salaries, emoluments, and constituency allowances and you don’t see any urgency to seek action?
We see the urgency to make laws and we are making the laws but it is not our job to implement the laws. Tell me about any relevant law that we have not made at the National Assembly. The issue is that Nigerians circumvent the laws that have been made. The governors are doing their best, this country is too large and the policing is not enough. People like the Inspector General of Police are having sleepless nights.
You make plans for security here; they sabotage you on the other side. I’ve told you before: the hatred in the country is too much. We are yet to be nationalistic enough to say ‘we love Nigeria.’ Unless we return to the ethos and re-orientation of loving Nigeria, it will be a difficult period to live in.
But you people campaigned and boasted that you will secure the country but your best seems not good enough…
Our job as lawmakers is to make laws and pass them to the executive, and we have never failed in making laws. Some individuals hire people to destabilise the country and you are blaming senators. Can you remember where we were before the APC tookover? The Catholic Church in Masaka was bombed.
Boko Haram took over Borno State. Now it’s just a few tiny places. These people are coming to hit and run away. We are getting to the end of it. Before, they took over villages and towns, now they are doing sniper jobs, they attack and run. Also, remember that Boko Haram took over almost all of the North-East, but they are being pushed away by the Federal Government and some state governors.
What about the recent attacks in the North Central?
These people are hit-and-run criminals unlike before when they took over the entire Borno State. We are not incapable; we are working but the local and international sabotage is so much. The prosperity of Nigeria means the prosperity of the world. However, some members of the international community don’t want this country to stand.
Let me be honest with you. Who supplies us the guns? Where do our arms come from? I don’t want to say what I know about international politics, and I don’t want to mention anybody’s name. There are things beyond what you are seeing.
President Donald Trump’s comment on Christian genocide in Nigeria and the US congressional hearing; does that worry you?
You know that I am pro-America and I feel very concerned about what is happening. Most of these things are purely sabotage, both locally and internationally.
I will refer you to a video of Maitama Sule in 1967, where someone said Nigeria will never have peace. They belief is that if Nigeria is allowed to have peace for 20 years, the country will surpass every other country in the world. If Nigeria is allowed, our economy will be number one in the world. We have everything to make it happen but jealous people are fighting the country.
What do you make of Trump’s suggestion of military intervention in Nigeria?
It will be a very good thing if he consults with the Federal Government. We have to reach out so that the military efforts against bandits and terrorists will be a combined effort of Nigeria and the United States, and I don’t see anything wrong with their intervention.
When Chief Olusegun Obasanjo was president, I was one of those who supported that AFRICOM should be in Nigeria with 10,000 US soldiers. I openly supported that the US should establish a base here in Nigeria and in the Gulf of Guinea but I was called all kinds of names like agent of the CIA because I supported it during cabinet meetings as governor. It would have served a lot of purpose.
The stealing of our crude oil will end because they will have surveillance over the waters. Security will be thorough, and we will not be witnessing what we are witnessing today. So, I want Nigerians not to be short-sighted. I support what Trump is saying but it has to be harmonised between the government of Nigeria and the United States.
Even when he called Nigeria a “now disgraced country”…
It doesn’t matter what he calls us. We are proud of our country and our government. What he calls us is left to him. He is in his house; we are in our country. For me, we need to work together with the United States, we need that partnership.
Are you not worried that the Country of Particular Concern tag will worsen our economic and diplomatic ties with the US?
Trump will not allow it to happen because it will worsen the situation of the very people he is trying to protect. No president wants people to suffer.
Some people are in the US pressurising the US government. Why was it hard for you and your colleagues to relate with the US Congress because the debate started in Congress and we thought a handshake would get the job done?
The National Assembly under Senator Godswill Akpabio has made overtures to our colleagues over there and we are talking. It’s not something I will come and narrate here. We are talking with the United States Senate, their congressional leaders, and people who matter. Not everything requires the President to come in.
Efforts are being made. In the last three to four weeks, we have been in touch with them and we have made progress. It is part of what we discuss in the office. If it happens that Trump tags us as a Country of Particular Concern, we will manage it. We are a sovereign nation.
We are not under any nation, and when it happens, we shall take our steps. We are the biggest Black nation in the world; you cannot joke with this country. We are a major ally to the US. We have participated in UN peacekeeping missions. The US needs this country. We are not a push-away nation. We are not Mali or Sudan; this is Nigeria.
Are you saying that America should have their boots on ground in Nigeria to get the job done?
Get me clearly; America should not come here without the cooperation of the Federal Government. They are not coming with their soldiers; they are coming with technology and intelligence which is what is required to fight this insurgency.
Who are those sabotaging our country? Can we name and shame them?
How can Nigerians feel secure? I was governor of Abia State at a time, we faced similar challenges and I handled it very well. If some of these states declare state of emergency and I am called upon to handle the situation, I know what to do. I did it in Abia. Remember that I established Bakassi Security in Abia that salvaged almost all of the South-East. When I was governor, security of lives and property was paramount.
But all those things you mentioned didn’t stop insecurity… You can do your research. You can call my former Director of State Security Service, Commissioners of Police, and other security chiefs like A.A. Abubakar who used to be the Inspector General of Police and Yusuf Bichi who used to be the director General of Department of State Services (DSS).
They will show you what we did. We ensured civilian-police security cooperation. You could leave your property in Aba and go to sleep. I drove all the criminals away. Some of them ran to other countries because I told them to choose between living peacefully in Abia and not surviving it.
Why haven’t you borrowed your party, the APC, this idea?
It’s a complex situation. People think all security issues rest with the Federal Government. The governors of the states have a lot to contribute.
But Nigerians need to know those who are sabotaging them…
I can’t mention anybody’s name. The intelligence agencies are on it. If they feel it is necessary to call their names, they will call them. I’m not in the intelligence sector; I’m a lawmaker, so I can’t do the job of the Nigerian intelligence community.
As a senior member of the APC, you are very close to the President. What is stopping you making the information you have available to him?
The President did not tell me what his intelligence community is saying. He can discuss it with me as a friend, but he will not tell me intelligence matters. What I know and can tell you is that the President is working day and night. He is not sleeping because leadership is not a bed of roses.
It looks like your party is getting unpopular and may not win in 2027. Do you think that is the endgame?
The party is growing by the day. The challenges are there. We are fine-tuning strategies to solve the problem. We are problem-solvers. I am not in the executive or in any security-related position to respond properly. I also don’t sit in the Federal Executive Council.
Now that the leader of the Indigenous People of Biafra (IPOB), Nnamdi Kanu, has been sentenced to life imprisonment, how do you react to the verdict of the court legally, politically, and morally?
Like I told you, I won’t like to talk much about those issues. But I want to use two theories to respond as propounded by two Nigerians in the last 48 hours. One is from the Minister of State for Foreign Affairs, Mrs. Bianca Ojukwu; the second is from Mascot Uzor Kalu, my younger brother. Their theories are perfect. It is not time for noise-making or fighting; it is a time for sober reflection.
If I take you down memory lane, a few of us including former Governor James Ibori advised President Umaru Yar’Adua to grant amnesty to the Niger Delta agitators, and he agreed. Let me tell you; we shouldn’t focus solely on Nnamdi Kanu. We must solve this problem holistically.
Over 30,000 Igbos were killed. People with shops and people without shops lost everything. I used to manufacture and sell my products in Aba. I know the numbers and what we faced. People talk about soldiers and security operatives killed by the Eastern Security Network (ESN), but many people lost their shops and nobody talks about them. There were over 30,000 Igbos killed and nobody talks about them.
The problem of Nnamdi Kanu should be resolved through a political process like Bianca Ojukwu and Mascot Uzor Kalu said. So, they should stop the noise and focus on settlement with the Federal Government and I can tell you that I have been working with the Federal Government on how to resolve this issue. Nobody should question Justice James Omotosho because his decision is a judgment of the court.
What we should be doing now is as Nnamdi Kanu is going to the appellate court is that we should adopt the political side to resolve the issue. That is the area I know, and I will be contacting the Attorney-General to advise the President and others on how best to resolve this issue. If I take you down memory lane again; when I wanted to join the APC in 2016; President Muhammadu Buhari, may his soul rest in peace, and his DSS director found a way because I told them I would not join if Nnamdi Kanu is not grant bail to face trial.
The truth is, if you ask people to kill people, you must face trial. But I wanted him to be in his house while facing trial. Even though they wanted to release him to my house, I told them no because where I live is sensitive. Release him to Umuahia. We worked hard; Lawan Daura is alive, Abubakar Malami is alive.
They all helped to ensure he was released on bail. I cannot say more. I know the pressure I personally put on President Buhari before he was released on bail in April 2017. Other Igbos died. Nobody talks about Igbos killed. Nobody talks about shops that are no longer working. My mother has a friend who owned a rice shop and owes my mother N4.2 million. These people ransacked the shops and the woman went bankrupt.
The court mentioned the police and army killed. But the court didn’t mention the over 30,000 Igbos who were killed. They only mentioned soldiers, police and others, not the people who lost their businesses and ran away from their villages. I don’t want to be emotional here. A lot of Igbos were killed. Let the Igbos stop being emotional. Let us settle down, go on our knees, and find a way for the man to be released. It is part of my job to do it.
Is it possible for Nnamdi Kanu to take responsibility for what happened?
I know my discussions with him when he was in detention. I was the first to visit him in 2016. I was the first that saw him when he came back from Kenya. The DSS were there. Remember, I own The Sun Newspapers.
On four occasions President Buhari wanted to proscribe the newspaper because it was the only paper supporting Nnamdi Kanu. I am the owner of the newspaper, it is not owned by the Igbos, but I told the journalists working with The Sun that newspaper is a public trust, so they should report what they see. The Federal Government then wanted Sun to stop putting Nnamdi Kanu on the front page.
I am not for or against anybody. I am only for free press. Louis Odion is your colleague. When he left as Sun Editor after five years, he wrote in The Nation Newspapers that Orji Kalu is the best publisher he worked with. I never asked him to add or subtract anything. Ask Femi Adesina and Eric Osagie, they will tell you the same thing.
Is there any solution to Nnamdi Kanu’s case?
Yes. They are appealing against the judgment, and we will intervene politically by appealing to the Federal Government. We will also appeal to the Attorney-General. I never insulted the judge when I faced trial. I saw the judge at the National Assembly the other day during confirmation as a Supreme Court justice, and I embraced him.
We must condemn certain behaviours. You cannot rant in a court of competent jurisdiction. I take exception to that. Justice Omotosho is just a messenger of the court; he did his job. If you are not pleased, you go to the Court of Appeal and not insulting the man in the court.
