ANAYO EZUGWU 
Chief Bode George is a former Deputy National Chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP). In this interview, he speaks on plans by some governors elected on the platform of the party to defect to the ruling All Progressives Congress (APC) and ex-Vice President Atiku Abubakar’s move for an opposition coalition, among other issues, ANAYO EZUGWU writes
PDP governors are decamping quietly and now supporting President Bola Tinubu. What do you think of these two issues?
The first issue is saying that the governors are decamping. We’re running a system that is very despicable, very disheartening. There was a time when we had President Umaru Musa Yar’Adua. They had a crisis in South Africa. He appointed me and some others. I led the team to wade into the crisis with President Thabo Mbeki and his vice.
It was when we got there that I realised that the system by which they handle their election is very different from here. For every election, no individual names appear on the ticket of the party.
It is the party that contests for election. At the end of the election, when they’ve calculated the number of votes cast and all that, that is when they will now decide party A, you had so much, present your presidential man, present the vice president, present this, present that, present the House of Reps and all that, which is the reverse of what we do here.
That is why over there, when you say the party is supreme, the party is supreme. I am shocked that a party that gave you the tools, a party that gave you the platform, a party that recognised you and gave you its platform, and campaigned for you, all you will after getting into office is to around and start flip-flopping and rolling around like a rudderless ship. This is 2025. We’ve still have two years to go. You are decamping. You are jumping sheep. Who knows what will happen? Twenty-four hours in politics is a long time.
I’m very disappointed with these governors because they got the platform of the party, the backing of the party, and the electorate in their states supported them because of the programmes of the party and halfway you are now thinking, I want him to go back. What is it that APC has presented to Nigerians? A party that is not organised. Who is the national secretary of the party?
They don’t have a structure. You hear about Abdullahi Ganduje; the acting chairman. Who is the national secretary of the APC? Who is the national treasurer? Who is the national publicity secretary? Who is the woman leader? They don’t have any structure. Our people saw all these but still leaving a solid party as solid as an Iroko tree, and which has all the structure.
They are jumping from there and rolling away like a rudderless ship. You can’t do that because what would history say about you. Where are you going? What can you say you are going there to look for? I’m so disappointed!
Have you spoken to any of these PDP governors who are said to be thinking of decamping, and what are some of the conversations you had with them, and where do you stand on the PDP group talking about coalition and the governors saying there will be no coalition?
Let me try and explain to you. The South African model is such that in any election, it is the party that goes to the contest. After the election, the electoral process will compute the figures made, and they will now ask the party to give the nomination of who they are sending as president, or whom they are sending as a lawmaker or governor.
So, if there is any fracas, the party is supreme. The party has the authority to withdraw your candidature and send you packing.
That is why loyalty, dedication, and absolute commitment to the party are assured. I mean, I saw it. They told us that if Mbeki fails to align with the party, they would call the ANC conference, and he would be removed as president. They maintained that he would withdrawn and somebody else sent replace.
The founding fathers of the PDP were selfless… They came up with a concept that allows all Nigerians to be part of the political process of our nation, but what some people are doing now amounts to dancing on their graves
So, you cannot be on your own and be rolling around like a rudderless ship. That’s what I’m saying. On your question concerning whether I have discussed with them; I have not discussed with them because I am shell-shocked. I’m just hearing the comments made by these people.
They think the PDP is over, but I’m saying they are jumping from the frying pan into the fire. What is APC for God’s sake? Apart from that Tinubu is the president, who is the national chairman of the APC?
Who is the national secretary? Where is their structure? You want to go to a political party that has no structure? You got the platform of our party to contest. And now, halfway, you are looking at issues from the angle of self-aggrandisement or self-interest and you are jumping ship.
What about the people that voted for you, that led you there, that gave you all the tools, that trusted you to go and manage the resources of our land for our benefit. There is so much to be done in the constitution of our country, so much to be done in the structure, the operation of the political parties. We can’t just be wishwashing and rolling around like a rudderless ship. It is not on.
You talk about whether I have spoken with them; talk to them for what? At the party, we had a crack, and of course, a divided house will remain a defeated house.
We had just started to make amendment after the meeting of the governors. They had proposed a certain agenda. That agenda will be taken to the National Working Committee (NWC) for consideration.
It doesn’t mean it is the final. It’s a suggestion. After that, the NWC will look at it, add or subtract, and bring it to the National Executive Committee of the party, which is the next highest body before the convention. We will discuss it. We will debate it. We have a structure. We have an organisation. We have a process, which through we manage ourselves.
But for some people, halfway into the matter, with the train moving, they are jumping ship. How are you sure that where you are going to is better and that you would be guaranteed pf anything. The power of the people determines who is going to be governor or any other thing but we are ignored in this country.
Looking at the South African model that is based on proportional representation, do you think that the same should be done in Nigeria, and as we look ahead to 2027, who do you think should be the person that will lead the PDP’s presidential campaign?
I’ve been in this game because I was born into a political family. My great-granduncle was the first Nigerian politician, Papa Herbert Macaulay. He formed the first political party in 1922, so I grew up in that house.
Twenty-four hours is a long time in politics and that’s why when you see a thoroughbred politician, you don’t go to bed until about five or six in the morning. Because if you go to bed too early, by the time you wake up, all the discussions you’ve had will have changed.
I mean, I didn’t go to bed this morning until 5.am. That’s the standard. So, what I am saying is that no individual in our party owns this party. Let these people sit down, forget about ambition. There is no human being born to a woman who will not pass on one day; there will be an end.
The only thing people will remember you for is your positive impact on them. It is the will of the people that matters, not your aggrandizement. Look at Baba Awolowo and the programmes he started. Those who are now forming a mega party, what is the purpose of that mega party? You are a member of a solid organisation and you want to pull out.
You are meeting with former President Muhammadu Buhari, who is not a member of our party. Have you discussed this your mega something, with anybody else? Do you think it’s a private fiefdom? Is PDP a private company? Nobody owns PDP, so you must bring it to the party. Let us discuss it. Once it is approved, you move.
You don’t just flip-flop because of your ambition. Look at President Buhari shaking hands with these guys. Is he a member of our party? We presented you against him, and he defeated you like a little kid, and then you ran there. And if you look at the congregation of those who visited Buhari, they are all from one side.
Who are the others from our party? No, it’s not done that way. My conclusion was; what is this man trying to do with this mega party? Is he trying to divide Nigeria into the North and South? And let me tell you, the founding fathers of the PDP were selfless, they were committed, they were dedicated.
They came up with a concept that would allow all Nigerians to be part of the political process of our nation but what some people are doing now amounts to dancing on their graves. The last time, they manipulated the process.
Atiku got the ticket in 2019, he got the ticket in 2023, and now he’s trying to get the ticket again. Is it a private fiefdom? Who is the former president? Is it not General Buhari? Where does he come from? Is he come from Yoruba land or Igbo land? All we are saying is that we have a system.
Eight years of presidency in the North and eight years of presidency in the South. So, we should come home and work together and not looking at our ambitions. Even Nyesom Wike; I dissociated myself from their group because he was now saying he’s going to work with the opposition. I said I can’t do that. The day I’m tired of the PDP, I’ll come back to my house.
That’s the way I was brought up. Why are you rolling like a rolling stone that gathers no moss? So, for God’s sake, for the sake of Nigerians, for the sake of the millions of people, we should put our house in order. Look at what the young man is doing in Burkina Faso. We, Nigerians, played so much role in liberating Congo.
I’m disappointed with these governors because they got the platform of the party, the backing of the party, and the electorate in their states supported them because of the programmes of the party
Who stood by Mandela? Nigeria. Who stood in Namibia? Nigeria. Who stood in Sierra Leone? Nigeria. Who stood in Somalia? Nigeria. Who stood in Liberia? Nigeria. We spent our money and we didn’t take anything back. But the question is: What have we done now with ourselves? Complete loss of faith, loss of money.
Look the people in the banks. For God’s sake, Tinubu should please wake up and grab all these bankers. Let them bring their money back, a minimum of N20 billion per person.
What do they do? What are they producing? The humongous amount of dollars and money they declare as profit, what is their production? I just lost a friend of mine. He had a humongous amount of deposit in his bank. The bank collapsed. What did they do to him? He’s dead now.
You were a member of the G5 during the 2023 general elections alongside Wike, who is now saying that the PDP has faded away and that the party cannot win any election in 2027. Does it make sense to you?
I was not a member of the G5. The G5 were governors. I wasn’t a governor. They invited some elders of our party, who have been original members. I was privileged to have been elected at the first elective convention of our party in December 1999. That gave me the opportunity.
I was first vice chairman of the South-West. Then I became the deputy national chairman of the South. And I became deputy national chairman overall.
So, I am still a live member of this party. That’s garnering experience and respectability, and that’s what has given me this opportunity. Now, when they formed the G5, it was mainly the five governors. They then realised that there was a need for them to invite some elders.
I wasn’t the only one. Former Governor Jonah Jang of Plateau, a retired general; Prof. Jerry Gana and some other elders, founding fathers who shared the same concept of thinking with them about what the party is all about and we joined them.
They said I was the chairman of the G5, and there was some other name they called it. But two days before the election, we parted ways because they came and suggested that out of the two contestants for the presidential election from the South, we should zero in on one individual.
I said no, we can’t, the two are from the South, let everybody go back to their state, discuss, debate and adopt a candidate. That was the last meeting I had with them. And I’ve not lost my steam. I’ve not lost my head. I have no regrets about that.
That was the last. And occasionally, I met Wike and would calm him down. As an elder, yes, he was wronged, but it is not everything that should force you to make noise. Sometimes you remain quiet. When you need to punch, you punch. It’s not every time you keep punching. I told him calm down.
He’s my political son, so I looked at it and said if that is the way you guys are thinking, I’m not going to be part of that. Now, our governors met and they discussed the issue on the agenda because we hadn’t had our NEC meeting for a long time.
That is why everybody is thinking PDP is dead. The Iroko tree cannot just die like that. An oak tree doesn’t die like that. The foundation, the taproot, is so deep-rooted that it doesn’t die.
You talked about the supremacy of the party but Wike is telling every Nigerian that the PDP is a toothless party. Why can’t PDP discipline its members?
You see, we just don’t jump out like a rudderless party. There are processes. You just don’t make a statement and say, go and sack this, go and sack that. It is not a private fiefdom. It’s not a private enterprise of anybody.
The NEC has the authority, which is the convention of the party, and is the highest authority, followed by the NWC The NEC has not met, s everyone has to wait. We will bring up the issues before the relevant organs of the party.
It’s not only about Wike. What about those who headed out and said they are talking about a mega party? I have said it before that all of them on both sides have committed anti-party, and they cannot get away with it.
If we want a party to be respected, a party that people will love, a party they will adore, we will go back and take appropriate actions. It’s not a private fiefdom of anybody. And don’t get it wrong; you cannot just make a statement and say you have fired this or you fired that.
We will allow them to defend themselves. They will come before the NEC, and all sides of the issues will be discussed. That is why some of us are still remaining in the party; it is about justice, fairness and equity.
Some people are talking about electoral reform; what kind of reform would you like to see?
I am saying that the electoral system we are running is completely hopeless. The procedure by which our people emerge doesn’t allow them to have respect for the rules of the party and respect for the party.
I talked about the South Africa’s system; I’m not saying it’s the ultimate, but it’s still much better because you know for real that if you mess up, the party can withdraw that candidature from you and kick you out.
They did that to a president, so who else can be spared? Even if you have an independent candidate in South Africa, how many of them have been able to make any headway?
They knew where they came from. You forgot in the 90s when the apartheid thing was raging, that was the birth of the union. We didn’t have that. The British, when they left here, left us with two evils: tribalism and religious bigotry.
