Besides the Federal Government, state governors have also been called out to ensure an increase in federal allocation to their states is reflected in the lives and livelihood of the people, especially in the face of current cries and protests in the country. Governor Abdulahi Sule of Nasarawa State, in this interview monitored on Channels Television by BIYI ADEGOROYE gives insight into such funds
It has been said that more funds are going to the states after subsidy removal ,and people are asking what are the state governors doing with this money?
The Minister of Budget and National Planning said funds were recently given to the states. Has your state been given that money? Yes.
How much?
We got N27 billion.
So its came right on time?
Yes. It came in June this year. You see, there is a little bit of misunderstanding about the N570 billion, because few days ago, I saw my brother Senator Shehu Sani on your programme, speaking on the same issue that the respected Mr. Femi Falana, SAN also raised. It is very important that the governors come together and clear the air. From the beginning when the issue came up, there was tension in the country. There were issues about all this protest, and all the governors were in their states trying to manage it. They also felt that there was no need to respond in order not to create more tension in the country. So the governors showed some level of maturity to take the heat. Let me tell you how the issue of N570 billion came about. N137 billion was the first amount that was disbursed, under a programme called Nigeria Community Action for Resilience and Economic Stimulus. That money came from the World Bank and that was the second disbursement which came in November last year. The actual amount was credited to every state some time at the end of January or February of this year. Of this figure, Nasarawa State first, getting 10 per cent of the total amount, and that money was meant for certain projects. It is almost like a regimented interest-free loan from the World Bank. The reason is because it was coming in order to support the states because of the COVID. It actually started around 2020, and the first disbursement was done even before President Tinubu came in May 2023. The second disbursement was during his tenure and the third was the one that was done in June this year. They were all advertised because that was part of the requirement by the World Bank.
Three installments and all of them have been paid to the state governments?
Yes, our accounts have been fully credited. Every state has been credited and no one of them is denying it. The only thing the states would have to explain so that people will understand is that it was not meant to cushion the effects of the economic hardship that people are facing, because the money is tied to certain projects. For instance, in Nasarawa State, part of the money was to be used for the construction of 15 kilometre rural roads in every one of the 13 local governments in the state. In our state we ended up doing over 227 of these rural roads. It was supposed to go into communities where there is no water and power, so we had to provide borehole and solar power. It is supposed to also go into cash transfer, where 2,000 people will get N10,000 each for 12 months. Also included is primary healthcare. So the money is tied to certain projects. The money is not for rice or anything in the area of palliatives
But somehow, it is supposed to serve as a kind of palliative, especially the cash transfer…
Definitely. All of them are supposed to alleviate poverty. For instance, the World Bank identified certain roads that are to be fixed in the state and they selected them one after another. I will give you one example. Where there are rural areas where there are lots of agricultural activities, yet there is post-harvest wastage, because the people do not have good roads to bring out their farm produce, we constructed such roads and the people were happy since they are able to bring their produce to the market. That way, we empower them and reduce the high level of poverty in such communities. In other places where it has to do with health, education and agriculture, we also took action. Take the area of agriculture. We have been giving fertiliser and other farm inputs to the various farmers. So in Nasarawa State for instance, the total number of people who have benefited from the N13.6 billion we received, amounted to 259, 754 beneficiaries. How can we track them? Is there a platform where Nigerians can track them and see that these people received this funds? Yes. You see, the World Bank is even following this very closely. It is interested in ensuring that everything we say we are doing must have happened. If it does not happen you will not qualify for the next disbursement. In the first N136 billion, there are one or two states that got zero, because it is tied to performance. How transparent are you in your own state? How well are you funding education? How much have you spent on rural roads? What is your level of accountability as a state? These are the questions the World Bank looks at. So they got zero because they were not transparent…?
Yes. From the onset, the DLI- the Direct Line Link- was agreed upon. The World Bank must inspect and make sure that you have met these requirements and whatever you claimed to have done, must have been verified and submitted to the Ministry of Budget and National Planning and to the World Bank, which will now give approval before you will get the next disbursement. So it was a World Bank loan not funds meant for palliatives. The reason Nasarawa State is at the forefront of doing this is because in the second tranche, we were number one, so we got N13.6 billion.The second one we got N27 billion and in my state, not N1 of the money has been touched since June when we got the money. But the heat now in Nasarawa State is that the money is there. We want our money. The Minister said the money is for so and so, but it is not so. It is a World Bank loan. They are not also wrong when they say it is a kind of palliative… But it is tied to some projects. It is like SUBEB and if you want me to call it in a language that people will understand it is a regimented facility, a loan that is tied to projects. You can’t change it. I will give you an example. On these rural roads, I went to World Bank people and told them ‘this rural roads’ when we do them, the r a i n s come and wash them away. Maybe instead of doing 15 kilometres, can we just go here and there and do four or five kilometres in certain places and then…, they said no, it supposed to be what was applied for and that is what I mean by saying it is being regimented. It has to be spent on the proj – ects for which t h e funds were approved. It is performanced based credit facility. But the local, state and Federal Government have been receiving more funds from the Federal Allocation Committee…? I agree with you. In the past, the total amount of revenue shared monthly was around N600 billion or about N620 billion maximum, sometimes, even slightly lower. Today, you will see the total amount shared is between N1.1 to N1.3 trillion and the rest of that. So you know, it’s common sense, that every state, including the Federal Government is receiving higher revenue, thanks to Mr. President for allowing it to go like that. Because he would have said ‘no, this is the money meant for subsidy, therefore, we are going to divert it somewhere’,. but he is sharing it so that every state will go and execute projects, and that is what every state is doing. What I do not understand is doing. But you might find out some of your colleagues are doing nothing with the money… Nobody will receive that kind of money and do nothing.. But why are Nigerians now saying that the governors should come and show what they are doing? This is not the same in all the states of the federation. Some of them are performing poorly… Well, I don’t know any state that is not doing this because each time we come to the Nigeria Governors’ Forum meeting, we share ideas. They equally say what they are doing and sometimes, we see Mr. President and other people going from one place to another to commission one project or another. As a matter of fact, this particular protest is actually an eye-opener, especially for my colleagues from the North. Even if anybody is not doing anything, this is the time to do something, because we can’t be blaming other people. I love the statement made by Senator Shehu Sani that ‘forget at the microscope, look at the mirror,’ and this is the time. For me, I can’t wait for next week or the week after, where we sit down as governors of northern Nigeria to tell each other the truth. We must do something. There is a narrative that North the way we used to know it when the religious leaders used to be epitomised by the emirates, there was some direction, buy that for some reasons is been whittled down by politics and now we see the people getting on the streets… but are they responding to the realities of the times? I will tell you that the next meeting that we would have as Governors of Northern Nigeria, it is no longer a meeting where you will say that ‘Oh, religion has forbidden me from doing this.’ Today, God has gifted us the governors with the leadership, if we don’t go out to say ‘this has to be done right, … During the last protests that we had in Lafia, Nasarawa State capital, the majority of those that came out were the Almajiris. Some of them, five, six or seven years old. A lot of them didn’t even understand the meaning of the protests. When I spoke to them later they didn’t even know what they were protesting against. So we must sit down. At one point in 2020, we sat down as governors and made a decision about the Almajiris, unfortunately, it did not work out. We went back to square one. Some of the religious leaders criticised it, but from what happened now, I don’t believe anybody will continue to criticise any action that will be taken in order to move forward, otherwise,… it is a time bomb and it will come and consume everyone of us. So, like they say, the chicken has come home to roost, and this is an eye-opener, that no leader can take people for granted. In your own view, what do you think is now critical to your people, to now start doing to let them know that you are really working in his interest? One is education. One of the needs we identified from when we came up when I came and we are still facing now is education. When people actually don’t have education, don’t have economic empowerment, these people will continue to behave the way the Almajiri people behave anytime there is a protest. So education must be taken seriously in the North. We must be honest with one another, and say, ‘Sir, marrying so and so number of wives, having so and so number of children when you cannot even take care of them, is wrong’. No religion actually promotes that. No religion is allowing that. You mean that is not in the Holy Koran, that you can have more than one wife? No, you can have more than one, if you have the resources to take sare of them. I am a little learned in Islam. It is actually in one of the four Suras. It is in the fourth Sura, where you are allowed to marry more than one, on the condition that you can afford it, that you have the resources. It is not just that you should do so because you are a Muslim. So the Koran forbids irresponsibility, marrying wives and having children you cannot cater for, leaving them to go about begging… Islam does not allow that (irresponsible child bearing). It is important and that is why I say our religious leaders have to be part of our meetings. You see, people are misusing the word Almajiri. I am an Almajiri. Almajiri is a student. If I am sitting with somebody like Prof Isa Patami, I will call myself his Almajiri, because I am a student because, I am not as learned as he is, I will say Sir, I am you Almajiri. Almajiri is somebody seeking for Islamic education. So, he is not a beggar. President Goodluck Jonathan’s government created an Almajiri System was a good idea? Wonderful idea. But it has collapsed now… …Long ago. So we need to go back to it… No. No. No. We must not go back to that particular one. What I am saying is that, from the beginning, let us educate ourselves. Look, China educated itself and said you can only have this number of children. Yes, they are not Muslims. There are more Muslims in India than in any country in the world, and they are following this Islamic teachings. They don’t follow the things we are doing. In Saudi Arabia, the majority of the people have only one wife. So our people are misguided? I don’t want to use any such word, but I will say we need education, especially on the part of our religious leaders. The religious leaders, the traditional leaders need to rise up. Everybody, including our governors. Do we need a state of emergency on this in the North? I don’t know if that is the right word to use, but what I am saying is that we must wake up as leaders and do what we think is right for this country and our region. Our region is good in agriculture, so everyone of us should go back to the field. If anybody is criticising it, we have started. For me, we have started and the background is there. When I was Group Managing Director in Dangote. I managed Savannah Sugar Company. In fact I was the chairman of the company that was producing sugar in the country. So I am very familiar with agriculture, I love agriculture. I have my personal farms. Today in Nasarawa State, we have 5,000 hectres of rice farm that we have cultivated and our first harvest will be in October. We are not just going to be talking, we have to show it. Some governors may be doing more than we are. The number of out of school children has spiked, and your state has a huge figure. What is the way out? That is the point I am making about education. It is easy to marry, but it is another thing to take the responsibility of marriage. I think those are the things we should do as leaders, to sit down and look at one another in the face and say ‘this is your failure and this is yours.’ For instance, we clamped down on this Almajiri sometime ago and took them to their various states but the moment this thing relaxed, maybe they got angry, now we have twice the previous number of Almajiris in Lafia, as if they are punishing me. There have been years of leadership failure in the North. Where do we start from to address this? That is why I started with your interview with the senator a few days ago, where he said we actually need to use the mirror to identify the problem. We cannot continue like this where we blame the President, Minister and all the rest. This is no time for blame game, but time to identify our faults and address them… We are all responsible, both leaders and followers. We have to hold ourselves responsible. Has the Bola Tinubu government even given state governments anything to fight poverty specifically and how much is that? I will tell you one of the best things that ever happened. We started pursuing this money since the last administration. There is what we call Petroleum Tax, Excess Crude and Petroleum royalties and the rest of them which were deducted from our allocation. But the state government did the reconciliation with the Federal Government. I remember the then Governor El-Rufai played a major role in that reconciliation and the total amount came to about N1.7 trillion that was going to be shared. The Federal Government under the same President Tinubu just about three months ago, said that in order to help the states to develop, we have to release this money and it was released to the states. will give you an example with Nasarawa. Our state was allocated N57 billion out of that money. Around when and this was aside from Federal Allocation? Yes. It was around June this year. However, Nasarawa ended up not receiving anything, but we are still happy. You know why? Before I came as governor, the state government had taken bailout and budget support and the total amount was N58 billion. Therefore, the Federal Government used our state’s N57 billion to offset that outstanding.
