ANAYO EZUGWU 
Dr Usman Bugaje is a chieftain of the Arewa Consultative Forum (ACF) and a former National Secretary of the Defunct Action Congress (AC). In this interview, he speaks on the comment made by the National Chairman of the All Progressives Congress (APC), Abdullahi Ganduje, that the North should wait till 2031 before vying for the presidency, among other issues, ANAYO EZUGWU writes
What do you make of ACF’s rejection of Ganduje’s comment that the North should wait till 2031 to vie for the presidency; is the power sharing agreement between the North and South off the table?
I think this is a very familiar conversation in the last 25 years. But I think so much has changed that such kind of conversation is outdated. Yes, politics is about popular participation. Yes, inclusion is very important. Yes, people need to make sense or have good reasons to be able to participate.
But I think what has happened in the last 25 years is the fact that we have tried these kinds of models of North and South and the country is only going down the drain. So, I think it is time to start a new conversation, to start rethinking how can we have democracy with development.
We’re having democracy with all these things of North and South and East and West and whatever you have, and the country is not developing. If anything, it’s de-developing. It is going down the drain.
All the indices of development are taking a nosedive. So, I would rather say while, yes, we must recognize every part of this country and become inclusive. I think we will be losing out on the challenges that are facing us if we continue with all the problems we have to start talking about North and South.
I would rather be part of a new conversation that starts thinking about what team we require that can fix this country that is about to break down, that is about to be run aground by reckless and irresponsible politicians who have held power in the last 25 years and are not ashamed of the fact that they have not performed well.
They are still talking about ambitions. Everybody has an ambition to be this, an ambition to be that. People are talking about their turn but what have they done with these turns. They are destroying this country. We can’t continue with these kinds of conversations.
Like I said, we have to recognize everybody, we have to include everybody, we have to consult. But this should not deteriorate to a level where we start looking at a turn-by-turn kind of presidency or become fixated with this formula of North and South. Some people would say this tribe has not had its chance, so they have to be given an opportunity. The question is: Those tribes who have had their chance, what have they done? So, is it a tribal matter in the 21st century?
Why is this position now because I don’t think you were this fervent or the ACF was this fervent, when it was said to be the turn of the North.?
For me, this is not the first time I started talking about it. I talked about it from 2019 through to 2023. Before then, even from 2015, I have consistently said Muhammadu Buhari’s presidency was a disaster. And there are so many other things that he did by putting too many Northerners in the security sector for no benefit at all to the North. I thought Buhari’s experience is sufficient evidence that this idea of putting somebody from one part of the country to become president doesn’t work. It doesn’t make sense because what do you want him to do.
Buhari’s experience is sufficient evidence that this idea of putting somebody from one part of the country to become president doesn’t work
To favour his part of the country and abandon others. This is very naive, to say the least. So, the point I’m making is that you can achieve inclusion and not at the expense of development. There is no part of the country that has monopoly of competence.
There are competent Nigerians in the South-West, South-East, South-South, North-East, North-West and North Central. Why don’t you pick those competent Nigerians from the different parts of the country to fix and run your country? Why do you go for people who are barely educated, people who are crooks and people who have no idea of where to take this country, people who cannot engage the world?
Why do you go for people who all they know is primitive consumption and primitive accumulation and very perverse tastes and consumptions, and just simply running the country down. So, this is why I said inclusion is a very critical aspect of governance and you can achieve that and still achieve development by bringing in more competent people. Some technocrats can fix the energy sector, the transportation sector as well as improve our infrastructure. The few that have come into government have been elbowed out.
Some of them have been chased out of government because corruption will not accept the kind of thing they want to do and I feel very sad about that. Many Nigerians across board stood up to the military during the time of General Sani Abacha. We fought for democracy but this is not the kind of democracy we fought for. We want a democracy that takes cognizance of competence, recognizes knowledge in the 21st century as the greatest capital and tries to mobilize the people.
Nigeria has a lot of competent people. Why can’t we bring them into governance? Why don’t they lead the process? Why do we need some politicians who don’t understand the world in the 21st century, and who have no record of doing anything competent anywhere? And all their life is a life of sleaze and corruption. And because they have accumulated money through those corrupt practices, then they buy everybody off. Now, we have a National Assembly that is literally for sale. I mean, they cannot stand up to the president on anything.
So, this is the point. I think we have to change the conversation because we need a new narrative and we have to be constantly aware. And I keep repeating this fact that in 2030, just another five years from now, we’re going to be 300 million. Already, we have more than 33 million people on the verge of starvation. These are United Nations bodies that are quoting these figures. We have a deficit in grains alone. For last year, more than 30 million metric tons, we have 20 million children out of school, the highest around the world. We have all these terrible statistics which we’re not addressing.
These politicians are not discussing these matters. They are discussing ambitions, their turn, and who will be the next president, we have to do a coalition to chase President Bola Tinubu out, just like we did with President Goodluck Jonathan.
If you are saying that it’s time to do away with the system of zoning, then ultimately everything will be tipped in the favour of the North. So, how do you balance it out?
The constitution is already doing that because the House of Representatives is based on population. I think the presidential ticket should not be clouded by this North and South thing. I think we have to prioritize knowledge, competence, courage and character. The most important thing is the character. Honestly, for me, yes, the North in terms of size is 78 per cent of the size of the country.
The whole of the states of the North, you can put them in Niger, they will still have another space for the whole of the size of the north, even though there will be land remaining.
Yes, that is it. This is geography; there is nothing we can do about that. But the point I’m making is that we must not lose sight of the fact that this country is sinking. And if we continue with that kind of North and South thing, then we lose sight of the fact that this country cannot develop. So, I think we need to change the conversation.
If it was a northerner that was president, would you be talking this way because in 2019, ACF declared that they would only support candidates from the Northern Region for the presidency?
If you want the ACF’s position, then you should get the spokesman of the ACF to answer that question. I, as Usman Bugaje, have not made that statement but I have made it very clear that while inclusion is important, I do not insist that a president must come from a particular part of the country. We should make sure that we prioritize competence, we prioritize character, we prioritize the courage to do the right thing.
If it was a northerner that was president, would you be saying all of this?
I don’t know if you have followed what I’ve been saying. During the time of Buhari, I was at the forefront of criticizing the way he was ruling, and in 2019, I didn’t support him. In 2023, I didn’t even support the APC. I made it very clear. So, the point I’m making is that, yes, there are people who say the kind of things you are saying, but I’m not one of them. I have my view. I have my understanding. I’m a northerner and I care for the North and I feel every part of this country should be developed otherwise we cannot have peace.
You have to go global and you know very well that a lot of global institutions are trying to reduce inequality around the world because whatever happens to one part of the world is going to affect the other part of the world.
The globe has become a village. So, let us not continue with this conversation of North and South. Let us change the conversation and start a new conversation about how we get competent people with character and courage to run this country.
Is it that you will now support Atiku Abubakar, and do you believe he can get the job done with all these traits and characteristics?
In 2019 and 2023, I supported Atiku Abubakar because among all the candidates that came out, he was the one that I thought was going to do it. That’s my own choice and everybody has his choice. I’m not an Atiku man. I’m not anybody’s man. When I was in Action Congress of Nigeria (ACN), Atiku left and I remained. If I was his man, I would have left with him. So, I’m my person and I don’t believe in being anybody’s man. I believe that people should have the courage of their convictions. Therefore, I’m not going to be anybody’s man.
If Atiku runs again in 2027, will you support him?
No. In fair to what I’ve been saying, if you have been listening, is that this idea of supporting one candidate with whatever combination of balancing of the ticket to go into the villa to lock the gates and then the wife would become the Queen Elizabeth and the children become some princes and princesses of Saudi Arabia and start behaving the way they like, this is outdated.
What will work for this country is people of character, people of competence, people with the courage to do the right thing. There are many of them but the political culture and arrangement will not allow them
We must not allow this country to fall into the hands of this kind of people. I would rather and I’m not talking about Atiku here. I’m talking about all of them, I would rather we do a collegiate leadership where we get the best and the brightest and there are a lot of them in this country to come forward and salvage their country.
That’s my view and I’ve expressed this view openly in so many places. I’m not going to support someone because he has been an old politician who has been around for some time and then a combination of them. I am not. I have made this point very clear.
According to the publicity secretary of ACF, Nigerians were sold an anti-corruption dummy in 2015 and from what I can hear from you, if you assess the APC government, what are some of the lessons that we can learn from where you feel like they haven’t performed very well as a government?
Well, my view about the APC government is very well known. I have made it very clear. I’ve put it in writing. It has appeared. And if you want the view of the ACF, they have a spokesman, who can speak for them and probably defend whatever they say.
But for me, the APC government from Buhari to date is a disaster for this country. I’m not saying the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) is going to do any better. In fact, at the moment, and I’ve said this several times, the APC, PDP, All Progressives Grand Alliance (APGA) and Labour Party, I don’t trust any of these political parties as they stand at the moment.
What I think will work for Nigeria is, as I said, a collegiate leadership made of the best and the brightest. If you remember, we launched a platform called Rescue Nigeria Project. Ituah Ighodalo was part of it, Pat Utomi was part of it, Attahiru Jega and several other people were also part of it. What we were trying to do then, and we have not given up, is to get some of the best and the brightest people who can really fix the problems of this country, not politicians who are just out to make money and who do not even understand the terrain.
They are oblivious to what is happening around the world because they don’t read books. They don’t engage in debates. They don’t share information around the world and they are fixated. The only thing they do is to distribute rice to poor and ordinary Nigerians who have no idea what is happening.
Former Governor Nasir El Rufai recently said he thinks President Tinubu will get ex-President Jonathan’s treatment. Why do you think these two presidents of Southern extraction are the ones who are being perceived or predicted to only do one term, and what do you think are the decisive factors in that?
I think you need to get back to the time pf Jonathan and try to see the kind of position I’ve held. As far as I can remember, I’ve been consistent on this matter. If you cannot perform, you leave. What is the performance of the budget of 2024 for this particular president? My figure is that the budget performance was only 22 per cent.
Do you think this kind of people should be allowed to continue? Forget about that he’s from the South or the North or from anywhere. For me, wherever he comes from, if he cannot perform, he should leave.
Simple! I am from the North; even those who tried it, they have now seen through that this does not work. What will work for this country is people of character, people of competence, people with the courage to do the right thing.
There are many of them but the political culture and the political arrangement will not allow them. And you don’t wait for things to happen because the politicians will not allow that. We have to struggle to find our way, find a platform, mobilize the country. This incumbency that you’re talking about, look at what happened in Senegal.
If you had not supported Atiku in the last election, who would you have supported next?
Honestly, I didn’t know Peter Obi enough to support him. I’ve been in this business for 25 years and I saw there are ways you measure people. So, the people I saw around him are not people who are ready to take the nation together.
They were all reacting or angry about a particular part of the country and they were all fuming and trying to go on a vengeance. So that was my worry.
I would have supported Prince Adewale Adebayo of the Social Democratic Party (SDP). He comes across to me as somebody who understands the terrain and this country. I don’t have a full background of what he has been and this, but as a person, he comes across as somebody who knows what he wants to do.
